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Sack Lloyd Carr / General Michigan Football Discussion / So Long My Friends
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Toad 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 15:23


So Long My Friends

bye

gator 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 15:24


If the reports are true about Les Miles taking stabs at Lloyd Carr and his Parkinson's disease to get recruits at LSU

Is it true that Carr has Parkinson's? Is that like a little known fact up there because I've never heard anything like that and I watch any and everything I can on CFB? Is that why Carr retired? I'm not poking fun in any way; I'm just curious. I did not know that if it's true.

GoBlue21 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 15:26


gator

Let me find the link I read that on.....

GoBlue21 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 15:37


FROM MGOBLOG FORUM:

The Ferentz issue is fairly complicated. Obviously, he is strongly connected with Mary Sue Coleman, and he grew up on Michigan (Royal Oak) until going to hs in PA and his daughter went to school at Michigan. As a former assistant and then head coach at Iowa, he has known Lloyd Carr for many years and they share many of the same philosophies about football (running the ball ,time of possession, playing conservatively in the 4th quarter).

Carr has been sick since around 2001, when he was diagnosed with Parkinsons. He was medicated and for the most part was fine, but there were some very noticeable declines in 2003 and 2005, and he basically has fulfilled very few of the head coaching responsibilities since September of 2006. It was set up for the past two years that Carr would retire out after this season. Carr's contract has deferred comp provisions that don't require him to be head coach in July, 2008 in order to get paid out, and the assistants contracts are all guaranteed through the end of the 2008 regular season. Carr had promoted Mike Debord to OC in 2006 with the hope that the former Central Michigan coach and Michigan OC (96-00), would succeed and there would be a transition with Debord as HC without any major staff changes. That plan was working pretty well, until the first half of the OSU game last year, and then things have just fallen apart.

At some point last year, Ferentz visited Bo in the hospital. While in AA, he met up with Carr and Coleman. After that conversation, I believe Carr began to see Ferentz as a viable alternative –someone that he respected that would not change things dramatically. Carr is a very strong supporter of Ferentz being the next head coach, because he really does not have any internal coaches that would be taken seriously (maybe English in a few more years, but the D struggled with 7 new starters this year and he has only had the job 2 years).

Had Carr retired last year, there would have been a very high probability that Ferentz would have become the next Michigan coach. He is a coach that is highly respected, whom Carr and Coleman consider to have a lot of integrity, and would seem to fit very well with the existing personnel at Michigan and a safe pick in that he had proven he could win the Big Ten.

Things changed dramatically after the Appalachain State loss. It was readily apparent that an offense supposedly loaded with talent (henne, hart, Long, Manningham, Arrington) was not even prepared to start the season and was being outplayed by a football minnow. I can't tell you how pissed the season ticket holders and big $$$$ donors were after that game- unheard of at any Big ten school and especially Michigan. Then Michigan got wiped by Oregon, and Carr himself told the AD that he was definitely done-he just didn't have the energy to do it anymore and the stress was too much for him. The team has basically gone for several years now with a head coach in name only, as English (DC) and Debord (OC) basically function independently of each other, which is why things look like a mess at times.

At that point, the donors, ticket holders and AD realized that the program was in much more of a decline than many had realized (very antiquated strength and conditioning program, poor offseason workout structure, far more disciplinary problems than in the past, and the recruiting is struggling with the Carr rumors running the past two seasons- last year they missed out on several of the top in-state kids, which is pretty rare). The big money donors and alums began looking for the homerun candidate and Miles stepped to the forefront.


Miles has a long history with Michigan. He played for Bo, he coached for Bo, he left with McCartney and coached at Colorado, and he returned to coach for Moeller. Moeller's staff had some huge divisions amongst the coaches where they just hated each other. Guys like Miles and Kirk Cameron were seen as extremely arrogant, brash and aggressive and that did not go over well with Carr, who was the DC. When Moeller resigned and Carr became interim head coach, Miles was out there door in an instant and Cameron wasn't far behind.

Miles' and Carr's dislike for each other played out on the recruiting trail for years. Miles was allegedly one of the first coaches telling kids about Carr's health and impending retirement and that was 4 years ago. The dislike spiraled and spiraled.

This is what Carr meant in his resignation speech when he said that certain issues would be left on the recruiting trails (it was directed at Miles). But the current coaching staff (Debord, Loeffler and others) continue to just bash Miles through the media and surrogates on the message boards claiming that there are "ethical" issues concerning Miles. They are hoping that someone like Ferentz would come in and not completely overhaul the entire program, starting with firing most of them.

Miles, though, has huge support amongst the alums, big donors, and within the Athletic Department. On the internet, over 80% of the posters support Miles as the next coach in the polls. Even if he can be quirky at the end of games (not always coaching according to Hoyle like bombing it into the endzone on 3rd and 8 with 14 seconds left), he is seen as the fiery, emotional leader than can bring back the intensity and physical play Michigan has been lacking for many years now. And he is a great recruiter. He is a homerun candidate that is begging for the job (sent word to Martin that he WILL take the job if offered).

Carr, though, will not support Miles no matter what and despite their purported reconciliation. Hence, Carr and the current coaching staff are allegedly backing Ferentz as the anti-Miles candidate. This is a strong constituency because ultimately Mary Sue Coleman may cast her vote.

The third major candidate will be Brian Kelly of Cinn. He won 2 national titles at Grand Valley State (in Grand Rapids), won the MAC with Central Michigan (basically winning 80% of his games at a school that Debord couldn't win 50% at), and is proving himself at Cinn. He has some skeletons though, as MSU did not hire him last year because of his notorious temper and a purported racial incident (was defending some players claiming that in their culture they don't cooperate with the police after a shooting). Without a doubt though, the guy is a fiery competitor.

In the end, I think it will be Miles-but not without some shouting and hurt feelings. There is a very vocal minority very strongly opposed to his being head coach, but he is the sure fire homerun for the AD with the donors and alums. And his intense style and excellent recruiting likely has the highest ceiling as far as future success. He may not be the gamecoach that Ferentz and Kelly are, but he would overhaul the system and royally kick some *** until the things started working again. He is also aggressive in games and a dramatic departure from the ultra conservative world of Lloyd Carr, and most importantly-he goes outside of his system to hire top ***istants everywhere that he has gone. Jimbo Fisher, Gary Crowton, Bo Pelini-he just goes out and hires the best guy without the cronyism.

gator 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 16:17


GoBlue21,

Thanks for the read. Learned something new. I thought the most interesting part was "Miles and Cameron were seen as arrogant, brash, and aggressive." I wonder what that entailed. I'll bet those were some interesting arguments back then. Suprisingly, I've never liked Miles for some reason (just gives off an aura that I don't like). This story certainly hasn't improved my opinion of him. I (and I'm sure most) just don't get into the making fun of othes' disabilities, no matter how much you dislike them. Heck, I even feel a little bad now about some of the comments I've made of Carr in the past. I used to say his press conferences could be marketed as a sleep-aid "LloydPM." Now I find out that he may have actually been medicated. Lloyd I wish the best in this regard.

UM98 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 16:29


Suprisingly, I've never liked Miles for some reason (just gives off an aura that I don't like).

Ditto. I said before any of this shook out that I wasn't on board with Miles as the new head coach. Now it just seems like sour grapes on my behalf, but f*ck it, I really did think he was a jagoff.

Toad 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 16:51


I like Rod better than Miles. I wanted Miles because I feared the alternative. But, my fear was apparently displaced. The alternative is better!

Wolverine in Cowtown 
Member
# Posted: 17 Dec 2007 18:08


You were never my friend.....bye fair-weather load of crap!

True to the Maize and Blue only need to be here anyway. All of you who aren't prepared as Wolverines to give RR a chance need to get the hell out of here.

Insane, man.....with all the other things in my life that suck right now, I'm ready to vent like the crazy ***** that I am. I can't stand people who go ranting and raving about a coach-or anything for that matter-just cause they don't like a situation. Grow the hell up all of you. If you don't love the Blue, then just leave. We're all better off without you.

Motown74 
Member
# Posted: 20 Dec 2007 21:01


Why are you not turning to LSU then if you're a Miles fan? I don't think I want you rooting for any Big 10 teams if you're going to toss your team aside because of the new hire.

Its okay for the coach to come in and throw those assistants aside but not us fans. Give me a break. It was known the moment they hired him he was going to do this. I was told by an alum that when Carr re-negotiated his assistant's contracts it was because Martin told Carr they were going to go in another direction. Look at what happened at Nebraska because that is going to be Michigan in short order. You will all be sorry that this guy is coaching. He is a joke.

FlaBuck 
Member
# Posted: 20 Dec 2007 21:17


Motown's been drinking again......................

ATLANTABUCK 
Member
# Posted: 20 Dec 2007 21:39


Motown I agree with you 110% If tress did that I would NEVER call him a coach again, the kids come before anything my friend but try rooting for the team, the kids, and not the coach, you may not know it but you will be here much longer than RR my friend...think about it

Motown74 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 07:13


Motown I agree with you 110% If tress did that I would NEVER call him a coach again, the kids come before anything my friend but try rooting for the team, the kids, and not the coach, you may not know it but you will be here much longer than RR my friend...think about it

I can't believe an osu fan is the only one who sees this as a problem. Do you know that this has not happened at Michigan since 1969? Do you know that in the years Bo was coach he only let ONE assistant go? For all of you who talk about the winningest program in history and the tradition, do you realize that you can no longer say that? There is no more Michigan football, it has been castrated and thrown aside. We are in unchartered waters here. I am telling you that boosters are pissed. This guy will be gone in three years and how much damage is he going to cause. Look at Nebraska because we are going to be cornholed here folks.

Motown74 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 07:27


Here is a quote from Mike Hart that sums this all up for me:

"Obviously, when I come back (to visit), there's going to be no one here for me," Hart said. "That's 128 years of history gone, with no one (on the new staff) with any recollection of that and the tradition. If these guys get to know the history and tradition, they will learn that Michigan is a lot different than any other place. I just hope they learn Michigan and what it's all about."

Downward Spiral152 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 07:43


maybe hart won't come back "win win" for the U of M

GoBlue21 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 07:50


Here is a quote from Mike Hart that sums this all up for me:

"Obviously, when I come back (to visit), there's going to be no one here for me," Hart said. "That's 128 years of history gone, with no one (on the new staff) with any recollection of that and the tradition. If these guys get to know the history and tradition, they will learn that Michigan is a lot different than any other place. I just hope they learn Michigan and what it's all about."


I seem to forget, Was Bo a Michigan Man??? When Michigan hired him, he had no clue about the Michigan tradition I'm sure!! He turned out to be alright!! I don't know the full history on him but I'm sure he bought in a new staff when he accepted the head coaching job. Every head coach brings in a new staff, they may keep a few guys but that is rare. Rich Rod has his staff in mind and that is that!! It's his team now and the Michigan coaches now are fully aware of that! No hard feelings...Give the guy a chance before you rip on him! He may not be the Michigan Man that people wanted but NOW HE IS THE MICHIGAN MAN!!! He will learn about the tradition very quickly just like Bo did and things will fall into place!!

Downward Spiral152 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 08:10


GoBlue21
Bo didn't fire all of his assistants and then hire new ones!!! check your facts... its all ok though, w/ the contracts they all signed U of M has to pay them for the next year even though they were fired unless they take a job at another college... so with RR buy out and now having to buy out all the assistants this is going to cost lots of money... but end result fresh faces and starting over from scratch

Motown74 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 08:20


When Michigan hired him, he had no clue about the Michigan tradition I'm sure!! He turned out to be alright!! I don't know the full history on him but I'm sure he bought in a new staff when he accepted the head coaching job.

You are right and wrong. Bo brought in a new staff but he knew Michigan tradition and history. Read his book and you might begin to understand. He truly believes that it was his responsibility to learn that tradition and he did. This is a sad day for Michigan football. I refuse to give this guy a chance because he is crooked as hell. Mark my words -- Michigan will be worse off having this guy at the helm.

Buckeye Sweetie 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 08:21


bye fair-weather load of crap!
I love you girlfriend!!

Buckeye Sweetie 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 08:24


You will all be sorry that this guy is coaching. He is a joke.
Why will I be sorry? Someone take his Corona away!

CincoDeMaizo 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 08:40


He truly believes that it was his responsibility to learn that tradition and he did.

You are making weird assumptions.

Of course RR is going to learn the traditions and rivalries. This is his life, and he will be living Michigan football 24/7.

RR understands why he is here and Carr isn't. He needs to beat OSU, win the Big-10, and win bowl games. What is so perplexing about that?

Brutus_Buckeye 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 09:35


I seem to forget, Was Bo a Michigan Man??? When Michigan hired him, he had no clue about the Michigan tradition I'm sure!!

Surely wrong. He learned the rivalry from Woody and brought it to the other side.

GoBlue21 
Member
# Posted: 21 Dec 2007 13:59 ° Edited by: GoBlue21


Surely wrong. He learned the rivalry from Woody and brought it to the other side.

I stand corrected!!! But Bo wasn't a Michigan Man and neither is Rich Rod! Rich Rod understands 'The Rivalry' and he will know alot more about very quickly!!!

CincoDeMaizo
Of course RR is going to learn the traditions and rivalries. This is his life, and he will be living Michigan football 24/7.

RR understands why he is here and Carr isn't. He needs to beat OSU, win the Big-10, and win bowl games. What is so perplexing about that?


I totally agree! Rich Rod hasn't even coached a single practice at Michigan and Motown is already turning him down...You really think Michigan was going to hire a guy to bring the university down??? The caliber of recruits that Michigan, OSU, USC, etc. are totally different than the caliber of players that WVU recruits. WVU did have some troubled players, but every traditional football school has the same problems every once in a while but they just recruit a different kind of student athlete I guess. Character goes a long way in athletes, and some guys just never get it whether Lloyd Carr, Jim Tressel, Les Miles, Rich Rod, try to teach these kids to be men!! Look at the NFL and the Bengals for example, these guys are supposed to be men but we had 11 or so guys arrested...Chris Henry form WVU, Odell Thurman from Georgia, etc....You can't be by these kids sides 24/7 and it's not your responsibility to babysit them! Rich Rod can only do so much to help his players but sometimes that not enough and it makes the university look bad?!?!

ATLANTABUCK 
Member
# Posted: 22 Dec 2007 00:14


Motowm, you are my hero, regardless of the teams we are on its all about the kids my friend...I would be honored if you would be an honorary Buckeye for the BCS Champ. game and share in a BIG TEN victory, the Big Ten, the oldest Conference in the land stands for honor, integrity and strength far from sec morals HAPPY HOLIDAYS FRIEND and ALL THE BEST

editor 
Admin
# Posted: 22 Dec 2007 07:36


Its time to start moving these conversations over to www.hailvictors.com








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