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Sack Lloyd Carr / Other Detroit Area Sports / INDIANS ARE NUMBER ONE
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Author Message
Downward Spiral152 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:08


i don't hate michigan in fact they have a great program... its just typical um fan to over look the fact that OSU has owned um the last few years but these things all cycle and i'm sure um will be on top again sometime

Blueisbetterthanred 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:13


I wouldn't really say they "owned" them. The reason they won the last 3 is the name of this site. Despite carr we still only lost by 3 on the road last year, which is home field advantage in any game.

The main difference I see is osu has pretty good players with a great coach. UM has great players with a crap coach.

Downward Spiral152 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:28


i agree...

but did you guys hate carr when he was beating osu or is it just now that tressel is beating carr

Carr for President 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:31 Edited by: Carr for President


no i'm not saying they don't count i would much rather talk about my life time which includes the cooper years instead of talking about my great great great great grandfathers life time....

In your lifetime - that would be the last six years. Well, Tressel is 5-1 against Michigan in that time...oh, you mean you're *not* six years old???

Downward Spiral152 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:33


7 almost 8

Carr for President 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:35


7 almost 8

So you are like the next doogie howser - being in med school and all.

Nice!

Downward Spiral152 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:38


yes vury edumacted 4 me age

Blueisbetterthanred 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 14:40


but did you guys hate carr when he was beating osu or is it just now that tressel is beating carr

I have never liked carr. No passion on the sideline, predictable play calling, no balls and he thinks he's Bo. He has held players back that could have been more productive than they were. He refuses to adapt to a changing game and has been riding the success of the amazing team he had in 97 the last 10 years to keep his job. I could go on and on but you get the basic idea...



LesMilesNextUMCoach 
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2007 22:06


Don't hate Carr at all, here, in fact, I like his character and professionalism (how often do you see UM players acting like they are Miami?). We don't stick flags in other teams fields, don't rip the other team after the game, stomping on team's emblems at midfield, etc. Seems like I remember a Cooper team doing this at Wisconsin!

But...I have questioned two things this decade: (1) his loyalty to his staff, especially when we have repeated failures that last for more than one season (see: Jim Herrmann spread offenses from 2000 to 2004) and (2) his motivational skills (the team looks uninterested for games vs. Utah, N. Illinois, San Diego State, ASU, EMU, etc.)

Earlier in his career as HC, I considered him an outstanding motivator who relied on his staff to do the nitty-gritty game plans. This worked, more often than not, from 1997-2000 and for a few very big games in 1995 and 1996. I didn't consider him a great "coach" but a pretty solid coach. His record vs. Top 10 teams during his first 6 years was outstanding, and it included wins over teams other than OSU. You can't argue with 9-3 vs. OSU and Bowl games in his first six years, even if Cooper was part of the reason for his success.

Carr has been a part of this program since 1980, which speaks volumes (good and bad) about the kind of stability Michigan has had with its football program. I respect our stability, but believe that each assistant needs to know and expect to be held accountable over the years. Everyone has a bad game or even one bad season, when their unit doesn't play up to standards. One bad game/season doesn't mean the asst should get fired, but I do expect major improvement by the next season.

Carr took care of my single biggest criticism of the Michigan program: Jim Herrmann. I liked Herrmann's history here, but felt he was very slow to react to new offenses (who can't forget getting torched by Purdue and NW in 2000, Iowa in 2002, Oregon in 2003, OSU and Texas in 2004, etc.). Nor do I think that Carr was imposing his will over Herrmann's schemes. For all of Herrmann's rep as a defensive mastermind, I saw too many games where we made the same mistakes as in previous weeks. We seemed to play more a version of bend-then-break D.

To Carr's credit, he did replace Herrmann and English has gotten the team playing a lot better vs. the spread O. Other than one QB scramble by McGee (which was a great individual play), I don't think we made a lot of the same kinds of mistakes we did during the first two games. Holding a fast team to 253 yds and 17 points (7 of which were set-up by a long KO return) was pretty darn good. Also, Purdue had about 150 yds and 7 points when the reserves entered the game in the 4th quarter the previous week.

All this said, I do expect him to retire soon (he is 62 and has stated he will not want to coach forever, like JoePa). Whether it is this season or next, we will not be in the tank as bad as ND, which has struggled badly since the end of the Holtz era and last won a bowl game after the 1993 season (incredible as that sounds, it is true!).

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