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Sack Lloyd Carr / Other University of Michigan Discussions / WVU Gets Huggins
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editor 
Admin
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 17:52


West Virginia loses Beilein to UM ... and gets Bob Huggins in return.

Hard to tell who won that exchange.

Mike Furley 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 18:03


Unquestionably, West Virginia got the better Division 1 basketball coach. That being said, Huggins could never be a serious candidate for a school with the prestige of Michigan.

Beilein is an excellent coach, but I don't see him bringing in the caliber of players that Huggins could deliver. Huggins will have West Virginia competing for national championships while Beilein will have Michigan competing for conference championships....and Huggins will do it quicker.

I suppose it's a win/win for both schools.

BlueGoo 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 18:19


Like Shiit! Once again, an OSU backer blows it out his aass!

Living in Cincinnati, I knew Huggins well. He was fading fast, even before he was rightfully canned by UC. The guy recruits a bunch of thugs and runs the ragged edge of disaster with the NCAA. He also can't create strategy nearly as well. West Virginia isn't going to do that much!

I doubt his health will hold up much longer either. Dude nearly died a couple of years ago from a heart attack. His exploits with alcohol are legendary in Cinncinnati.

Oh, also was familiar with Thad Matta. He didn't prove shiit with Xavier, no more than Miller has. He had great players to work with at OSU. Right now, he has NOT shown more than Tubby Smith did, actually less. Tubby won the title his first year out.

Mike Furley 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 19:06 Edited by: Mike Furley


Like Shiit! Once again, an OSU backer blows it out his aass!

I respectfully disagree. UC was in basketball hibernation for 25 years until Huggins came along and he immediately took them to national prominance.

Kansas State was equally in hibernation since the says of Mitch Richmond and he brought them back from the dead in one season. With the studs he has coming in next season, even a marginal replacement will have them in the NCAA tourney.

. The guy recruits a bunch of thugs and runs the ragged edge of disaster with the NCAA.

I don't dispute this in the least, which is why I said Huggins was never a serious candidate for the Michigan job, and why Beilein is an excellent fit for Michigan. It's also the reason why Huggins can orchestrate such quick turnaround jobs at schools like UC and Kansas State and why an ethical coach like Beilein took a number of years with steady improvement before he returned West Virginia to success.

I doubt his health will hold up much longer either. Dude nearly died a couple of years ago from a heart attack. His exploits with alcohol are legendary in Cinncinnati

Again, I don't dispute this either. This is yet another reason why a school like Michigan that seeks longterm success would rather make an investment with a man like Beilein and not with a guy like Huggins. However, Beilein didn't leave the cupboard bare at West Virginia so this will make Huggins job all the more easier for a quick turnaround, whereas Amaker had four seniors just graduate who all logged serious court time.

Oh, also was familiar with Thad Matta. He didn't prove shiit with Xavier, no more than Miller has. He had great players to work with at OSU. Right now, he has NOT shown more than Tubby Smith did, actually less. Tubby won the title his first year out

For all of the crying you Michigan fans have over OSU people on this board taking every thread and turning into a commentary on Ohio State, well look what you just did.

First off, the editor started this thread wondering who made out better. I said it was a win/win for both schools given the circumstances both schools were in prior to naming their head coach. How in the heck is that any kind of slam on Michigan?

Secondly, nowhere in my post did I mention Ohio State, or compare and contrast either coach with Thad Matta. But since you brought it up, here is what Matta has accomplished in his coaching career:

2000-01 Butler 24-8 NCAA 2nd Round

2001-02 Xavier 26-6 NCAA 2nd Round
2002-03 Xavier 26-6 NCAA 2nd Round
2003-04 Xavier 26-11 NCAA Elite Eight

2004-05 Ohio State 20-12 Ineligible for Post season play (but did manage to beat the #1 ranked team in the final home game of the season, un-amaker like)
2005-06 Ohio State 26-6 NCAA 2nd Round
2006-07 Ohio State 35-4 NCAA Championship Game

And by the way, if Tubby Smith was such a "great coach" for having won a national championship with all of Rick Pitino's players, why is Smith at Minnesota and not at Kentucky, or any other school worth it's salt in basketball?

Get a clue, people in Lexington are dancing in the street over Smith being gone. Letting Minnesota "lure" Smith away is the equivalent of leaving your crappy car in the ghetto with the keys in the ignition, hoping somebody does you a favor and steals it so you can get the insurance money.

The Michigan Man 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 19:57


Beilein is an excellent coach, but I don't see him bringing in the caliber of players that Huggins could deliver.

Beilein took W. Virginia to its first Elite 8 since 1959 with almost nothing. He will have infinitely more resources available at Michigan, and will be a great recruiter in a more talented HS pool.

Huggins is a great coach, but his tendency to get sh*t faced and drive preclude him from coaching at Michigan.

But since you brought it up, here is what Matta has accomplished in his coaching career:

All right, Furley, what's up with this unwanted bio? The hijacking of threads is unlike you.

Tressel owns Carr 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 21:18


Huggins is a great coach, but his tendency to get sh*t faced and drive preclude him from coaching at Michigan.

Kinda like Gary Moeller. But Gary at least hired a cab.

LesMilesNextUMCoach 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 21:44


Huggins is still a decent coach, but I don't think he is as effective as he was early in his Cincy career. I think he has a lot of mileage on him, which has been of his own doing (hard living, booze). Age is not important as the mileage and how the "car" (person) was driven.

What works best for Huggins is that he is a WVU alum, knows the school and area, and will at least be able to keep the team competitive and in the running for NCAA trips.

I am not sure that he will be winning any NCAA titles there or taking his team to the Final Four, but they should be successful (making the Sweet 16 every few years). In other words, no major drop off.

No slam on Matta from me. He is proven his worth thus far. I'm not sure they will have a better chance than they did this year, though. Everyone assumes Final Fours will happen for their team almost all of the time. This was only OSU's 2nd trip in the past 40 or so years.

Though, he is not yet in the class of Izzo, Pitino, Roy Williams, Coack K, Knight, Olson, etc.

Tressel owns Carr 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 21:58


Bob Huggins is a tremendous coach. His teams earned a reputation for a rough style of play but Georgetown had the same reputation under John Thompson. Huggins earned numerous Awards at Cincinnati. Unfortunately he chose to drive after a couple cocktails. How many of us have been there?

Mike Furley 
Member
# Posted: 5 Apr 2007 23:08 Edited by: Mike Furley


All right, Furley, what's up with this unwanted bio? The hijacking of threads is unlike you

I threw a rock. Low five. I edited it out.

BlueBobcat 
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2007 00:38 Edited by: BlueBobcat


Unfortunately he chose to drive after a couple cocktails.

LMAO...... a "few"? The guy was throwing up on the inside of the driver's side door when the cops pulled him over. I would call that more then a "few" cocktails.

Unquestionably, West Virginia got the better Division 1 basketball coach.

Based on what?

Huggins can recruit but he can't win when it counts. He is the poster child for the choke job. Hugg runs up a 26-4 regular season record only to get bounced in the first round of the NCAA tourney EVERY year. Give me a Beilein, a guy that overachieves (with less talent), runs a clean program and doesn't embarass himself or the university any day of the week.

LesMilesNextUMCoach 
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2007 00:59


Tressel,

I give you that Huggins is a very good coach. Not great, but he did revive Cincy. He was best in the early days when he took his team to the Final Four.

He clearly recruited some trashy guys while at Cincy. Guys who could play ball well but were also not recruited by some of the big boys due to suspected character issues. I know someone who lives in the area during Bob's hey days there and mentioned that his players were often in some sort of trouble. Maybe, Huggins felt that was what he needed to do to win at a place like Cincy.

Not bragging here about bad character issues --- we had the Fab Five and Ed Martin era ourselves, which is why you won't hear me laud Steve Fisher, unless it refers to his 6-game run in 1989, where he won with Freider's guys.

WVU could have done much worse in trying to fill the void. They are not a huge draw for a potential hoops coach. It, like UM and OSU, is more of a football school. Huggins was probably the best guy for them right now.

Honestly, will you be surprised if Huggins does well there and THEN ends up with a scandal on his hands from off-the-court issues from his players. Morgantown is not a big town.

The Michigan Man 
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2007 06:27


LMAO...... a "few"? The guy was throwing up on the inside of the driver's side door when the cops pulled him over. I would call that more then a "few" cocktails.

Huggins is a 50-something year old guy puking in his car like like a 17-yr old prom date at midnight. Serious lack of judgment & self-control.

What kind of parents trust party-boy to guide their kid for 2-4 years?

Panzer 
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2007 07:59


Bluegoo Got it right, Huggins never did anything at UC and many of the old die hard fans refused to go to the games anymore especially those that sat right behind the bench. Huggins has a foul mouth, and recruited junior college transfers who were nothing more than thugs that couldn't play together.

Mike Furley 
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2007 10:30 Edited by: Mike Furley


Some of you are completely missing the point about what I am saying with respect to which school made out better.

Yes, Michigan Man, the resources at Michigan are better than at West Virginia, which is why Beilein left. Beilein is an excellent coach, doesn't have the baggage Huggins carries, is a better fit at Michigan, and likely will be successfull at U of M.

Huggins, however has a proven track record of quick turnaround jobs, is sixth overall I believe among active coaches in wins, and took UC to the NCAA tourney 14 straight seasons.

For those of you who have selective amnesia and think Huggins lost in the first round every season, check out the facts

1990-91 Final Four
1991-92 Elite Eight
1992-93 1st Round
1993-94 2nd Round
1994-95 Elite Eight
1995-96 2nd Round
1996-97 2nd Round
1997-98 2nd Round
1998-99 2nd Round
1999-00 Sweet Sixteen
2000-01 1st Round
2001-02 2nd Round
2002-03 1st Round
2003-04 2nd Round

I'm not even a fan of Huggins or UC basketball, but the facts are what they are. The guy just wins. And, if Kenyon Martin didn't blow out his knee the final week of the season, Huggins may have had another squad that was Final Four worthy.

Both Michigan and West Virginia made out well with their coaching hires, but West Virginia got the better coach. This is no put down or slam, or me "blowing it out my a$$" about Beilein or Michigan, it's just the damn truth.

BlueBobcat 
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2007 13:43 Edited by: BlueBobcat


For those of you who have selective amnesia and think Huggins lost in the first round every season, check out the facts

Furley, What's your point? I think that just solidifies mine. He's lost 10 out of the last 14 years in the 1st or second round (several times when they were a 1,2,3 or 4 seed), 8 of the last 9 years he was in cincy he only made it to the sweet 16 one time. That's a clear track record of underachievement, especially given the players he had at the time.

I think Huggins is an above average coach that sacrifices the program/university's integrity to win games. I'm sorry, but for me, that would never fly at Michigan.

I think your comment "Unquestionably, West Virginia got the better Division 1 basketball coach" rubbed everyone the wrong way and personally I don't agree with the statement. Huggins had a lot more talent and pull at UC then Beilein did at WVU, Canasius or Richmond yet Hugg underachieved in the NCAA's and Beilein overachieved with lesser talent. For me, that equates to better coaching, doing more with less (and not the other way around). They're also kind of difficult to compare because huggins turned Cinci around and then stayed there for an extended period of time. Beilein on the other hand has stayed 4-5 years, turned several lifeless programs around and taken a step up on the coaching latter.

It's not really an attack against your Furley because I agree with almost everything you say on here, I just have trouble giving credit to a guy that steps the line as often as Huggins Does. I think the most important aspect of the Beilein hire is that he wins and does it the right way. For me, that's all you can ask for.

Mike Furley 
Member
# Posted: 7 Apr 2007 01:43


BlueBobcat,

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

On a side note, I was listening to Herbstreit's radio show this week and his co-host questioned whether or not Beilein could successfully recruit Detroit given the deliberate style of offense he uses. I hadn't really thought of that, but it nonetheless makes me wonder.

BlueBobcat 
Member
# Posted: 7 Apr 2007 16:42 Edited by: BlueBobcat


BlueBobcat,

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.


Agreed.

On a side note, I was listening to Herbstreit's radio show this week and his co-host questioned whether or not Beilein could successfully recruit Detroit given the deliberate style of offense he uses. I hadn't really thought of that, but it nonetheless makes me wonder.

Well, it's a version of the Princeton offense (ala Georgetown). Beilein spreads the floor, works off of screens/pick and rolls and likes his players to shoot the three. The name "Princeton" offense brings visions of 40 point games but in the end he relies on good athletes to make it work.

I think it's somwhere inbetween slow down and fast break. WVU averaged 73 points a game this season so it's not like they play that slow of a pace. Think about how uptempo OSU was at times.... they averaged 74.5. Both teams were in the top 80 or so teams (out of 300+) in points per game, so I don't think that will deter players at all. I do think the discipline aspect might have somewhat of an impact though. Beilein isn't going to let guys freelance and disrupt the offensive flow, which my deter some of the raw, city kids who play on HS teams that don't have a lot of structure.

BlueGoo 
Member
# Posted: 7 Apr 2007 19:19


Damn, I started some trouble here. Good! The posts have been great reading!! Thanks everyone!!

Mike Furley 
Member
# Posted: 13 Apr 2007 19:16


http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10124929


Here's CBS Sportsline take on all of the coaching changes in college basketball this offseaon. Parrish lends credence to both sides of our debate.

He says West Virginia made the "best hire", and Michigan "got the most bang for their buck"

ByeByeLloyd 
Member
# Posted: 18 Apr 2007 19:10


being a huge fan of huggs, your opinions are mostly ignorant and silly. to do what he did in a school like cincinnati was above and beyond what most coaches underacheive at bigger, nicer schools.(see amaker, case in point) if you've never been to the campus at UC, you can't understand how great he actully did with what he had. he never recruited great players, he made mediocre players way overacheive. if i was a top or even close to top recruit and visited UC, i would need about 5 minutes to turn it down.

Todd 
Member
# Posted: 19 Apr 2007 10:06


if i was a top or even close to top recruit and visited UC, i would need about 5 minutes to turn it down.

Depends how much $$$ was in the envelope...

 

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