Your Ad Here

Sack Lloyd CarrFire Lloyd Carr
  Forums Statistics Sign Up Search
Sack Carr now is in archive mode. No new posts are permitted. You can pick up the conversation over at HailVictors.com.

The site will remain for the indefinite future as an historical record.

Tired of Football? Visit Golfblogger, the net's number one golf blog -- written by a Michigan man.
Shop at Wolverine Books for books about the State of Michigan

Bo Schembechler 1929 - 2006

Sack Lloyd Carr / Fire Lloyd Carr!? / We are doomed
Author Message
classof82 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 10:01


I've lurked here for a while, found this site after the App St disaster. I'm in NJ surrounded by RU folks. We are going to end up with a bad coach no matter what. Rumor is Schiano and Miles both lost interest quickly when Martin explained that Carr would be assistant AD. Both immediately said thanks but no thanks. No one worth a damn will come to UM under those conditions. I didn't think it was possible, but god forbid DeBoring is really the leading candidate of those who would actually accept the job.

I can't understand why Carr has achieved God like status at UM. Yes, he won it all with Moeller's recruits, but has slowly run the program into the ground since then. As long as he is around the program will suffer. Bo was inspirational and had a sense of humor. Carr is just a miserable grouch.

morgantrentforheisman 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 12:18


i'm not gonna say he's the most glorious, but i could have been worse than it was under carr. 7th winningest active coach (based on winning percentage) 6 big ten titles in 13 years, a national championship and a heisman trophy winner, all while keeping the universities integrity at a Bo-like level. stop being so fairweather about everything like everyone else on the site. we are going to be fine. we are FREAKING MICHIGAN.

classof82 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:14


I am not a fair weather fan. I bleed Maize and Blue. Carr and Martin suck. You can go right on drinking the kool-aid my friend.

Can you ever remember a UM O-line that was more owned than this one was this year? Our run blocking is non-existent. If it wasn't for talented backs that could repeatedly make something out of nothing, we would have been the worst in the Big 10 in rushing. Special teams, defensive schemes, game plans. I'm nothing special and I could predict our offensive plays correctly 70% of the time. There is never an element of surprise or deception, when our plays work it is solely better talent. I could go on and on, but the fact is we are out coached week in and week out.

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:26


Both aspects are true...

On one hand Carr wasn't a terrible coach. He put up solid numbers, won a NC, multiple B10 Champs and a solid winning percentage...you are not drinking kool-aid by acknowleging facts.

On the other hand, he had a horrendous losing streak to Sweatervest, he has a bad bowl streak and criticism about him sticking faithfully to DeBord and having a nearly predicitable offense are all valid criticisms.

I don't know that Carr has acheived God-like status...one reason he garners a tremendous amoung of respect is the way he treats his players. I've know a handful of UM players in real life over the years and I've heard some truly amazing stories about the guy. He really cares about kids, he also cares tremendously about the university and the program as a whole. Off the field, he has a father-like presence that is unnoticeable to the GP and the much of the fan base.

So, as much as I was ready to ditch Carr myself, there are aspects of him that I would love our next coach to have. If you could take his demeanor and heart and give him the X's and O's side of the job of say...Sweatervest, you'd have the perfect coach.

He does lack on the X's and O's side. He is too attached to DeBord, but at the same time you are avoiding the kool-aid don't succumb to the hater-ade.

Sten Carlson 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:28


Can you ever remember a UM O-line that was more owned than this one was this year? Our run blocking is non-existent.

I don't think that is a talent issue 82, I think it's a scheme issue. The days of off tackle line domination are over -- the d-lines are too fast and the LBs are too smart. I am not proposing a pass-happy offense, but in todays game (imo) you have to be able to threaten a QB run, and you have to play out of the shotgun more. There are lots of teams that run well out of the shotgun as it allows a back to hit the hole in different way, and doesn't make the guy take such a pounding (look what happened it Hart). I think our line this year was as good as any we've had, but like I said, I think they were playing with a play book that was outdated and easy to defend against.

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:35 Edited by: egami


I don't think that is a talent issue 82, I think it's a scheme issue. The days of off tackle line domination are over -- the d-lines are too fast and the LBs are too smart. I am not proposing a pass-happy offense, but in todays game (imo) you have to be able to threaten a QB run, and you have to play out of the shotgun more. There are lots of teams that run well out of the shotgun as it allows a back to hit the hole in different way, and doesn't make the guy take such a pounding (look what happened it Hart). I think our line this year was as good as any we've had, but like I said, I think they were playing with a play book that was outdated and easy to defend against.

This is exactly my criticism of the Carr-era. Nothing has changed in the playbook or the philosophy since he took over in many respects.

And I like the way you phrased that...play out of the shotgun more, not necessarily convert to a "spread" offense, like half the fan base seems to think needs to happen.

I know everyone wants that because of the "sex appeal", but frankly our base offense with minor adjustments would be more than adequate with the talent we have.

Sten Carlson 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:44


Can you ever remember a UM O-line that was more owned than this one was this year? Our run blocking is non-existent.

I don't think that is a talent issue 82, I think it's a scheme issue. The days of off tackle line domination are over -- the d-lines are too fast and the LBs are too smart. I am not proposing a pass-happy offense, but in todays game (imo) you have to be able to threaten a QB run, and you have to play out of the shotgun more. There are lots of teams that run well out of the shotgun as it allows a back to hit the hole in different way, and doesn't make the guy take such a pounding (look what happened it Hart). I think our line this year was as good as any we've had, but like I said, I think they were playing with a play book that was outdated and easy to defend against.

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:52


/bonk Sten

I know, I know....browser hiccup...

Sten Carlson 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:56


Look at what the Patriots are doing and freakin' copy that...Brady doesn't even run and they are shreading teams (or were before the last two weeks).

Put the ball in the hands of your play makers in space, not so that they can get smacked by a 300 lb monster at the line of scrimmage.

Move the ball around, use a little deception, a little more speed, and imagination!

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 13:59


Yeah, the mobile QB/spread O thing is ok, and people want it in large part because we've been beat up by it, but I agree...something along the lines of what NE or Indy runs works just as effectively.

One of my biggest disappointments is lack of use of the TE's and slot receivers.

Sten Carlson 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:06


Gone are the days when Michigan (or any team for that matter) can line up and say, "Here's what we're going to do, now try to stop us!"

There is too much talent and speed to do that. I've said this for years -- Michigan plays it's best ball (at least under Carr) when they are behind (remember the Minn, Fla, Bama games, etc.) and they flip the page over and open things up. Two five yard passes, a broken tackle, a deep ball, and a quick draw that gashes the defense -- not this off tackl right off tackle left, then a pathetic pass play in which the defense knows we're passing and pins it's ears back. I nearly smashed my TV during last year's Rose Bowl Game! Every series was the same -- off tackle, screen, off tackle, PUKE!

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:09


Gone are the days when Michigan (or any team for that matter) can line up and say, "Here's what we're going to do, now try to stop us!"

Agreed, too much parity and high school talent has increased immensely.

There is too much talent and speed to do that. I've said this for years -- Michigan plays it's best ball (at least under Carr) when they are behind (remember the Minn, Fla, Bama games, etc.) and they flip the page over and open things up. Two five yard passes, a broken tackle, a deep ball, and a quick draw that gashes the defense -- not this off tackl right off tackle left, then a pathetic pass play in which the defense knows we're passing and pins it's ears back. I nearly smashed my TV during last year's Rose Bowl Game! Every series was the same -- off tackle, screen, off tackle, PUKE!

Sad but true...

Oh, and your NE mention made me think something...if we ever persue a left field NFL candidate...I like Josh McDaniels. Never happen though...

UofMguy 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:10


Egami, absolutely 100% with you on lack of use of the TE... remember our championship team in 97-98, we went to the TE all the time. We stopped doing that! and we don't need a spread, we just need a better gameplanner and better play-calling. there is nothing wrong with the STYLE of the offense, it's just way too predictable and lacking in variation. And again, not enough TE or slot WR play-calling. I'm not sure why they went away from that, but it was a mistake. We need to mix it up, run 50% of the time, and pass 50% of the time. I LOVE passes to the TEs!!!

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:15


UofMguy

I don't know why either...I think we've had some decently talented TE's too, Massequio I think would've been a more recent ideal utilization of this.

UofMguy 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:25


Massequio could have been huge, and this year I was hoping to see Massey perhaps take on that role, but he got injured early on (and dropped some passes). I hope we have some TEs coming in with good hands... I long for the days of the NC team with Griese connecting to Tuman (and Streets). I'd love to see a mixed up passing attack with Mallet just picking teams apart like the 97 team did, just short passes, etc. It was a slow, chew-em-up offense, run for 4 yards, pass for 4 or 5 yards, and then we would ALWAYS pick up that 3rd down. But I'd love to see Mallet throwing short passes to the TEs, handing it off to McGuffie, and then going long, over the top to the WR. I just hope we get a coach who will inject some variation into the playcalling. We're not that far from righting the ship, but we need to do a little housecleaning first. Go Blue!

New Sherriff In Town 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:47


With the talent Michigan has it surely isn't doomed. There are many coaches who can coach that talent better than Carr. There is too much negativity here. The Michigan fans are starting to sound like buckeye fans.

futuremsufan 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:52


Michigan is'nt doomed ? ever hear of Nebraska started the same way....

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:56


Well, the Nebraska thing was a totally different scenario...I live in Iowa and post regularly on a Nebraska board.

However, the similarity I see that is most disturbing is the pressing perception that we need to hire a "name".

Although, I don't see us screwing up near as bad as they did with Callahan...not sure anyone can top that catastrophe, well...ND is working on it.

classof82 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 14:59


Some of you are missing the point. Yes, UM is loaded with talent. Yes, we will be able to recruit top talent. Yes many, many coaches can coach our talent better than Carr.

Carr isn't going away. He is going to meddle from the AD office. Martin is a weenie that will do nothing to stop this, in fact he approves of it. With that as a condition of the job, what fiery, determined, smart coach would sign up? In fact, what coach other than a total *** kisser would want the job? That leaves DeBoring as the leading candidate.

futuremsufan 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 15:00


If that does happen I do not see the Alum support or donor support at all and where does that leave old martin with no money coming in ?

egami 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 15:04


Some of you are missing the point. Yes, UM is loaded with talent. Yes, we will be able to recruit top talent. Yes many, many coaches can coach our talent better than Carr.

Carr isn't going away. He is going to meddle from the AD office. Martin is a weenie that will do nothing to stop this, in fact he approves of it. With that as a condition of the job, what fiery, determined, smart coach would sign up? In fact, what coach other than a total *** kisser would want the job? That leaves DeBoring as the leading candidate.


Oh, you're in the "conspiracy theory" boat too...

We're done here.

classof82 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 15:12


What conspiracy? Carr IS staying in the AD office. Martin IS a weenie. Carr WILL meddle. No one wants that job. Someone other than DeBoring hopefully takes it. Maybe we really luck out and get a brash young guy (another Bo?), who when called in to meet with Carr, tells him it isn't his team anymore and he will have no role in the program. Of course, if that happened Carr would do everything he could to undermine the guy with Martin. It's a no win for whoever comes.

CincoDeMaizo 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 15:23 Edited by: CincoDeMaizo


That leaves DeBoring as the leading candidate.

DeBord is an absolute must hire:

Year Team Win Loss
2000 Central Michigan 2 9
2001 Central Michigan 3 8
2002 Central Michigan 4 8
2003 Central Michigan 3 9
Totals 12 34 0.261

This year, with a team loaded with seniors & future NFL prospects, he delivered the #74 ranked offense (down from his amazing #38 ranked offense in 2006)

Why are we wasting time with Miles and Schiano? Float DeBord $3.5 mill and let's go get our NC with this guy! Go Blue!!!

firelloyd 
Member
# Posted: 7 Dec 2007 15:26


**** U LLOYD U ******* PIECE OF ****
U AIN'T WORTH ******* ****
U ARE THE MOST OVERRATED PERSON TO EVER STEP ON THIS EARTH
GO ******* KILL YOURSELF BEFORE I DO IT MYSELF
U HAVE SINGLE HANDEDLY RUINED THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
**** THIS ********

 

Visit These Other Sites:
Top Golf Links |  Read Sports Books |  Izzit Golf News and Directory |  Books For And About The Deaf |  Discount Health and Nutritional Supplements |  Discount Sports Apparel and Souvenirs |  Discount Laptops |  Discount NCAA Sports Apparel |  Discount Golf Books |  Find A Degree Program |  Discount Shopping |  Discount Silver |  Discount Coins |  Discount Animation Art |  Discount Fantasy Collectibles |  Discount Camcorders | 

Community built on forum software miniBB™ ©2001-2006