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Sack Lloyd Carr / Fire Lloyd Carr!? / 08' recruiting - If Coach Carr leaves will that affect the recruiting
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Author Message
R Madia 
Member
# Posted: 28 Jun 2007 19:41


My son is a 08' recruit who likes Coach Carr. I know you can't beleive everything you hear and read, but I am concerned if he commits and Carr retires, what future he will have there.

I'm a mom so I won't claim to be football savvy, but I do have pride in my son and the Michigan Reputation which is why i would love my son to be a Wolverine.

Any advice or thoughts?

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 28 Jun 2007 20:03


Any advice or thoughts?


There is alot of speculation that coach Carr will retire after this year. That really doesn't matter because a "Michigan Man" will coach after Carr retires. There is always a possibility that the current coach at any school will get fired, retire, move to a different school or move on to the NFL. If anyone promises you and your son differently, run for your lives.

The University of Michigan provides the rare opportunity to not only be a part of an elite football program that is a springboard to the NFL but to also earn a degree from one of the very best University's in the world. No other school in the Big 10 can claim this. The most important thing should be the education your son will receive. While I hope your son never gets injured (I'm a father and I wouldn't wish that on any parent), injuries are a part of the game and football doesn't last forever. Your son needs something to fall back on and a degree from the University of Michigan is as good a backup plan as any.

R Madia 
Member
# Posted: 28 Jun 2007 20:14


I agree, Education is foremost. I am in the healthcare industry and Ann Arbor has the largest university hoospital in MI. That's a great perk for potential post graduation placement.

Keeping a 17 year old focused on education is just as tough as helping him pick a uiversity to attend. He loves the game and wants to start as a freshman and is willing to do whatever it takes to get the opportunity to start.

Since you were kind enough to respond, what is your opinion on how the Wolverines utilize the H-back position? We hear they don't use one (obviously from the rival universities) but we were shown and told otherwise. (film from previous years)

I am trying to help him make a well informed decision but all the bad buzz is affecting him in making the decision. Do you have any advice I can give him from a Michigan Fan?

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 28 Jun 2007 20:31


I am trying to help him make a well informed decision but all the bad buzz is affecting him in making the decision. Do you have any advice I can give him from a Michigan Fan?


Michigan really hasen't used the H Back much recently. That doesn't mean they wont run alot of it in the coming years, for instance Michigan didn't run a zone rushing attack until last year. Any school will devise a game plan around their strengths and if their strength is two Tightend sets or spreading the field then thats what they'll do. College football is evolving across the board right now and teams are changing their style of play almost yearly. I can't really say much more than what I think will happen next year at any school because you just don't know. Even the coaches don't know at this point exactly what offense they will run three years from now. It sounds like there's alot of negative recruiting around your son right now and thats a shame. If a school doesn't use a good H Back when they have one it would be just plain silly.

I know thats vague but its really the best I have for you. If your son is a great football player, he'll play in due time wherever he goes and I hope he has a great career.

R Madia 
Member
# Posted: 28 Jun 2007 20:39


Thanks---great insight and I appreciate your feedback

GO BLUE!!!!

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 28 Jun 2007 20:46


Thanks---great insight and I appreciate your feedback

GO BLUE!!!!




Anytime!

gordify 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 06:03


Any school will devise a game plan around their strengths and if their strength is two Tightend sets or spreading the field then thats what they'll do

Now that's what I call wishfull thinking. We can down by 17 with 2 minutes to go and still won't run the shotgun. Even with Braylon Edwards, Carr wouldnt throw the ball downfield to him untlil we were losing in the fourth quarter. Not exactly what I call devising a game plan around their strengths.

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 08:13


Now that's what I call wishfull thinking. We can down by 17 with 2 minutes to go and still won't run the shotgun. Even with Braylon Edwards, Carr wouldnt throw the ball downfield to him untlil we were losing in the fourth quarter. Not exactly what I call devising a game plan around their strengths.

I wasn't exactly talking about play by play as much as I was talking about the overall plan for a certain year. I seem to remember sereval overall adjustments that were made last year that worked out pretty well.

I was also talking about how your recruits pan out. If you end up with a great talent like A. Bass you get the ball in his hands even if its not your norm. Although I do remember Carr goving the OK to toss it up to Edwards again and again in the comeback over MSU. With the exception of just a handful of games (Rose Bowl for starters) Lloyd makes good adjustments at halftime.

bluefan 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 08:29


With the exception of just a handful of games (Rose Bowl for starters) Lloyd makes good adjustments at halftime

Whoa. That's a pretty ballsy statement. Our history of losing games to teams we shouldn't proves maybe otherwise. If there's a correct call to be made to save a game from going down the crapper I'm not picking Lloyd in my top 100 coaches to make it.

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 08:53


Whoa. That's a pretty ballsy statement. Our history of losing games to teams we shouldn't proves maybe otherwise. If there's a correct call to be made to save a game from going down the crapper I'm not picking Lloyd in my top 100 coaches to make it.



Everyone just take it easy.

I said good adjustments at the half. That doesn't fix the problem of us getting up on a team and then taking our foot off of their throat so they come back and beat us because we went into bend but don't break mode.

There have been several games under Carr that we were getting killed before we made adjustments and came back to win. Recently we had the comebacks against Minn. & MSU and those types of comebacks go all the way back to the Iowa game in '97 (which was freaking awesome).

Carr's problem is that he is too conservative.

Todd 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 09:34


and those types of comebacks go all the way back to the Iowa game in '97 (which was freaking awesome).

They played that game on ESPN Classic last week. Did anybody else catch it? Sweet game!!!

bluefan 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 10:37


I said good adjustments at the half. That doesn't fix the problem of us getting up on a team and then taking our foot off of their throat so they come back and beat us because we went into bend but don't break mode.

There have been several games under Carr that we were getting killed before we made adjustments and came back to win. Recently we had the comebacks against Minn. & MSU and those types of comebacks go all the way back to the Iowa game in '97 (which was freaking awesome).



Good save and good points. I just wish it would happen a little more frequently. Or less frequently if we're talking about the bend but don't break.

Todd 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 11:05 Edited by: Todd


Good save and good points. I just wish it would happen a little more frequently. Or less frequently if we're talking about the bend but don't break.

Old Carr won't make an adjustment until he absolutely has to. Pisses me off! The Minn. and msu comebacks are typical of that. Perfect example of what could happen if he would open up the "O" every once in a while!

No excuses this year. He's got every reason to keep the throttle wide open!!!

R Madia 
Member
# Posted: 29 Jun 2007 18:05


Hello, since I am new to the whole understanding Carr's thought processes, why do you think he is so conservative and if so, why does Michigan keep him as head coach? I know he has a great history in coaching or am I wrong? Since my son is one of the new 08" recruits and his currrent High school team tends to play conservative, it drives him crazy. He is a multi position player and likes that becasue it throws the defense off. Doesn't the offensive coordinator and position coaches have some accountability during the game??

Can anyone give me your opinion of the h-back and in the past how successful was that position for the Wolverines???????

Just some thoughts from a football Mom

gordify 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 09:34


I do remember Carr goving the OK to toss it up to Edwards again and again in the comeback over MSU.

That wasn't an adjustment, that was desperation. If he would have thrown the ball downfield early in the game they wouldn't have to come back late.

MUFAN2 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 09:51


My son is a 08' recruit who likes Coach Carr. I know you can't beleive everything you hear and read, but I am concerned if he commits and Carr retires, what future he will have there.

I'm a mom so I won't claim to be football savvy, but I do have pride in my son and the Michigan Reputation which is why i would love my son to be a Wolverine.

Any advice or thoughts?



The thing is at big time programs (well even smaller programs) coaches come and go constantly. Look at major programs everywhere coaches never seem to stay long.

However, when you look at Michigan there is a lot of stability there. Michigan is one of the premier programs in the nation. You can be certain that no matter what happens to carr your son will be taken care of quite well at UM.

OSU is similar really as much as I can't stand them. One of my buddies played for OSU tressels first year. He was recruited hard by cooper then when cooper left he wasn't sure what to do.

I understand your concern as coaching changes make everyone a little nervous.

As far as the H-back, um hasn't used it in a little while. I assure you your sone will be on the field if he is good enough though, there is no doubt about that.

As others have said the college football game changes yearly. Look how much UM's defensive philosophy has changed over the past 10 years, Look at team like OSU, florida, USC, etc. They change every year depending on their talent.

Wherever your son chooses as his school I certianly wish him luck.

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 10:14


I do remember Carr goving the OK to toss it up to Edwards again and again in the comeback over MSU.

That wasn't an adjustment, that was desperation. If he would have thrown the ball downfield early in the game they wouldn't have to come back late.



When a team gets their butt's handed to them in the first half and then comes out in the second half with a different style of play and does really well (exactly what happened in that MSU game), most would call that a half time adjustment.

You're right about one thing, they probably were desperate. We got killed in the first half.

LLOYD FOR PRESIDENT 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 13:45


whos R Madia's son?

ElnoLewis 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 17:06


PLUS Ann Arbor is a great town.

1OSUNUT 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 17:47


If your really worried put your mind at ease and send him to Ohio State - hell he might even end up in the NFL.

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 18:35


If your really worried put your mind at ease and send him to Ohio State - hell he might even end up in the NFL.


Please note, she said she wants her son to get an education. By that I mean something other that basket weaving.

gordify 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 18:36


When a team gets their butt's handed to them in the first half and then comes out in the second half with a different style of play and does really well (exactly what happened in that MSU game), most would call that a half time adjustment

I'm not sure we're talking about the same game.

Being down 27-10 with 7 minutes to go in the 4th isn't what I would call an example of a good half time adjustment.

R Madia 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 18:50


Basket weaving, that was a good one.

My son is Christian Wilson out of McKees Rocks, PA (since Llyod for President asked) . He is 6'3" and around 235lbs. He has been a running back form his school since he was 6 years old (just to give you some insight, my son is taller than our entire offensive line)

Michigan is looking at him for H-back becasue he has good hands and reads the fiels well. He also spoke to coack English about defense. He plays ILB for his high school as well.

He spoke to Coach Tressel quite a bit but they are getting quite a few commits early and if Terrel Pryor commits in QB position, he likes to run and my son wouldn't fit in well with that scheme.

From what we were told H-back is quite a challenging position and you will work with both Jackson and Debord as coaches. I'll ask the question, I hear Debord is to timid.

What are your thoughts?

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 19:15


From what we were told H-back is quite a challenging position and you will work with both Jackson and Debord as coaches. I'll ask the question, I hear Debord is to timid.

Debord was the Offensive Coordinator at UM when we won the National Championship in '97 and everyone seemed to like him well enough then. He left for a head coaching position before coming back last year. Everyone was very happy with the job he did all season until the Rose Bowl. In the Rose Bowl he didn't adjust fast enough to the pressure USC's defense was putting on our offense and we lost badly. Because of that there are plenty of UM fans that were upset, myself included although I don't blame him for the loss. I don't think I would call him timid but you wont hear me call him perfect either. He does have a very good track record of sending players to the NFL.

R Madia 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 19:32


We were just at the UM camp 2 weeks ago and everyone there seems to love him. I guess they should or he wouldn't be there.

Since you have given such great responses, who do you think has more accountabillity when the team loses? I know you have to take competition into consideration, but I know here is Steeler country when the offense is doing bad they blame the OC and vice versa for the defense. I'm sure everyone has a role in a lose, but from what I here the Coordinators take the brunt of the blame.

Blue Is Nice 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 19:42


Since you have given such great responses, who do you think has more accountabillity when the team loses? I know you have to take competition into consideration, but I know here is Steeler country when the offense is doing bad they blame the OC and vice versa for the defense. I'm sure everyone has a role in a lose, but from what I here the Coordinators take the brunt of the blame.


I think its 50-50 OC & Head coach.




We were just at the UM camp 2 weeks ago and everyone there seems to love him. I guess they should or he wouldn't be there.


How did you like Ann Arbor?

R Madia 
Member
# Posted: 30 Jun 2007 20:00


I loved it. I'm biased though. I am a Sales Director and have sales reps who cover the State of Michigan, so I would be able to see my son when on business trips. I like the size and the hospital development is fantatstic. (I work in Pharma distribution) I feel in love with UM the first day I was there. It's the spirit of the school, you can't help but love it!!!!

On the recruitment side, all coaches and staff as well as the academic advisor really impressed me. I think my sons fear is living up to the Michigan reputation and wanting to do well in all aspects. Sports and academics. It's a big decision. That is why I came to many of you for some advice on H-back. He is nervous about living up to the expectation, but I guess what kid wouldn't be for any position they play.

Detroit Blue 
Member
# Posted: 1 Jul 2007 12:21


and those types of comebacks go all the way back to the Iowa game in '97 (which was freaking awesome).

The only game that I missed that year. I was on my way to watch the Wings at the Joe. Listening on the radio just makes it worse. It was funny watching Osgood take a puck to the forhead and having to leave the game though.

GoBlueGo 
Member
# Posted: 1 Jul 2007 16:29 Edited by: GoBlueGo


R Madia, don't pay any attention to the many morons on this site who bash Lloyd Carr or Mike DeBord. I've met both personally over the years on many occasions at various functions, and they both struck me as honest, caring, well-intentioned people.

It's true that Carr is no spring chicken, but the rampant rumors of his impending retirement are just that, rumors. I suggest that you don't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of coaches at other schools in regards to Michigan and Lloyd Carr. I was recruited by most of the Big Ten schools to play hockey, and some of the coaches negatively recruited, made lies up, and tried to twist things to get me. My nephew was also recruited to play sports (football) by most of the Big Ten and ended up signing with Michigan in the late 80's. He went through the same types of things I did, even worse. All the coaches negatively recruited and said terrible things about the other schools. Except Michigan.

My nephew was ready to go to Ohio State before he got a visit from Bo Schembechler. Bo looked him square in the face and told him to go to Ohio State if he believed all of the promises of early starting time and personal glory. Bo told him he never has nor would he ever promise a high school kid a starting job. Bo told him that the player that busts his butt to prove to Bo everyday in practice that he's a man and gives everything he's got on and off the field will start. Bo told him if he was looking for personal glory don't come to Michigan, because Michigan is about the team and not the individual. Now I'm having flashbacks. "Nothing matters, but the team, the team, the TEAM" OR, "I don't want an Arizona State man coaching a Michigan team. A Michigan Man will coach a Michigan team." Ok, Now I've got goosebumps.

R.I.P. Bo- you'll be loved and missed always.

Anyways, getting back on track....

Bo was as up-front and as brutally honest as one possibly can be. Bo was 100% above board and the kind of love and relationships that he had with all of his former players was something that is uniquely special. That is the type of man this entire "Michigan football" thing is built around. Bo Schembechler is the foundation on which Michigan football exists, and Lloyd Carr is one of his disciples. Carr has worked hard to keep all of those things alive, the loyalty, trust, and love between all of the coaches, players, and former players, but most importantly he's kept the honesty and integrity of his program intact.

I suspect that negative recruiting is a far more common occurrence nowadays and that it's even worse in a sport as big as major D-1 football. These coaches will really say and do anything to land a kid, and if said kid gets injured while still in high school or doesn't make the grades those schools will pull his scholarship at the drop of a hat and act like they never even knew him. Some coaches are just flat out scumbags. When they need a kid they'll say or do anything to land him, but the second the kid becomes a liability they cut ties to the kid. These coaches treat these kids more like commodities then they do human beings. One minute he's "like a son" the next he's a stranger.

Lloyd Carr is the complete opposite of your Phil Fulmer's and Bob Stoops' of the world. Mr. Carr is one-hundred percent class and he is a man of honesty and integrity. I'm not just singing his praises because he's the coach at Michigan and I'm an alum. I love Coach Carr just as much as I loved Coach Schembechler. Carr is cut from the same cloth as Bo, and he honestly cares for his players, it's not just lip service to him.

Michigan isn't for everybody, I know, I went there and played sports (hockey) there. The academics are tougher than most state schools and the expectations on and off the field are much higher as well. It takes a certain type of young man to go to Michigan. Most high school kids would rather go to Michigan State or Ohio State instead of Michigan. It's only human nature to take the path of least resistance, and those schools offer that path of least resistance up on a silver platter. The girls are better looking, the social/party scene is better, and the academics are much easier.

However, it is my opinion that those schools will not challenge him everyday and in every way like Michigan will. Michigan will challenge him to be the best and to always strive to do his personal best. Carr will turn your young boy into a man. A well-educated, well-rounded man with integrity. There is no "I" on a Lloyd Carr coached team. You can ask Braylon Edwards or David Terrell that. They both thought they were superstars and got big heads, and Coach Carr had to beat that out of them. By Terrell's junior year and Braylon's senior year they were both a part of the team, on time for meetings & practices (which is 10 minutes early according to Carr's watch), and well-behaved on the field and off the field in the classroom.

As far as the coaches from other schools telling you Michigan doesn't use an H-back, that is true to an extent. We haven't used one since the days of B.J. Askew and Aaron Shea (circa '01/'02 seasons), but then again we haven't really had one on the roster. Kevin Dudley and Obi Oluigbo have been our two primary fullbacks for the past 5+ seasons, and neither player was near the type of athlete that your son is. They were great blockers and very good fullbacks, but they weren't very good receivers or ball carriers like your son. Michigan had to scrap the H-back from the offense simply because they just didn't have an athlete that was big enough, athletic enough, and skilled enough to play the TE/HB/FB hybrid position that they call the H-Back position in their offense over the past 5 seasons. I've seen film clips of your son, and I have to say he reminds me a lot of former UM H-back B.J. Askew, only more athletic. Which by the way is a very good thing.

B.J. is starter in the NFL for the New York Jets and was a great player at Michigan. If your son is more athletic than B.J. then the sky really is the limit for him wherever he decides to go. I suggest you and your son buy a copy of 'What It Means to Be A Wolverine' by Kevin Allen, Art Regner, and Nate Brown. I'm sure you guys will enjoy it. I know I sure did!

link:
http://www.amazon.com/What-Means-Be-Wolverine-Michigans/dp/1572436611


Remember these quotes from Bo...

"Nothing matters, but the team, the team, the TEAM."

"I don't want an Arizona State man coaching a Michigan team. A Michigan Man will coach a Michigan team."

And rest assured that the "Michigan Man" ideology is bigger than one man, and that it'll continue on long after Coach Carr. Carr is a disciple of Bo's and has taught his coaches how to be "Michigan Men". This thing is bigger than one guy, and it'll live on forever no matter who the next head coach is. Michigan isn't a Johnny Come-lately like FSU or PSU and where one man is the entire program. No one man is as big or bigger than the program. This is the all-time winningest program in the history of college football, and we've been winning football games consistently since the late 1800's.

gjp 
Member
# Posted: 2 Jul 2007 08:29


R Madia, Carr may be the most loyal coach in football to his players.

I think that Antonio Bass is an outstanding example of Carr's dedication to his players' receiving an education. Odds favor that Bass will never see a football field again, but it is my belief that Carr insists there is a chance Bass will return so that he may keep his scholarship and finish his degree.

I think most here would agree that a Fulmer or Meyer would shake loose the player to open up another scholarship.

Your son would do well to commit to Michigan.

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